# Help and Advice > Related Illness/medication/alternatives >  False Emotion Disorder **STRONG AB/SU Triggers**

## Ken Willidau

I have suffered from depression for most of my life. Mostly just thinking too much, but the thinking stopping a lot of things in life. I am normally an easy-going person without a worry but when I get alone my thoughts change. After being ruled 'sane' by a psychiatrist (or two or three) and anti-depressants having zero effect (Effexor and Prozac - one year each), I started wondering if it isn't mental, what is it? And this is what I have come up with. I hope it helps you as much as it does me.

"A false emotion is an unexplainable mood caused by your brain being confused about what your face is making it think you're going through now."

I believe we're looking for complicated solutions for behavioural issues to what is a simple problem.

A slogan of depression groups is Depression Hurts saying that depression is as much pain just like physical pain is. I think the slogan should be Hurt Depresses. You just don't recognize it as that. The feelings are a symptom of healing from the pain caused to the exertion to your face which is simulating an emotion/feeling. 

The most obvious example of a false emotion would be trying to open an impossible jar, and the rage you get in your face. You arent really madder at this jar than anything else in life. The physical stress from trying to open the jar ends up in your face causing a feeling of rage.

We have probably all heard the saying 'If you keep making that face, it's going to freeze like that.'. I think that's what happens. You stress/work out your face, and it starts to affect you a couple of days later. Your face is muscles  you can overwork them. 

The nerve endings in your face each have a profile and your brain knows the patterns of pain or pressure for each feeling. The more pain cells activated/hurt and the intensity of the pain/pressure, the stronger the feeling. 

Once you start getting a feeling in your face when its healing, your brain tries to figure out why you feel angry/worried/sad and if there's no obvious reason to focus on, rummages through the past trying to find what might be causing the problem to fix it, like it thinks that if it can solve it, the feeling will just disappear, and it's just bringing up things that support it because it's not going to fix it because it's a physical problem and not mental.

Ive never taken ergonomics seriously. I now think that I have just barely survived chairs.

My issues started in Grade 7 when I started at a school where you moved to different classes each period. Sitting at the front on a stool, to the right on a stackable chair, at the back in the chair attached to the desk. That's when I started getting angry in life. The headaches. The out of character behaviour. I attempted suicide in December of that year, at 11 years of age.

For me, its chairs. Ive worked in offices and on computers for 40 years. It could be anything doing it to you. But, chairs arent as obvious since they arent physically tiring. And since its an accumulation of stress or time-delayed, you might not even be aware its doing it to you. I have said many times in my life, It cant be that. I always do that.. But never for this many days, now. 

I would categorize false emotions into four different types: 

Instant: The face drop from being tired, bugaboos and disappointment. This is where your out of character and over-reactions would come from, if elevated false emotion levels are present. 

After-Shock: The moody day from over-stressing your face and a couple of days later feeling the effects of that, and not relating it to being the result of something that had no obvious consequence to you, at the time. 

Accumulated/Chronic: The accumulation over time where an activity has physically stressed you out at a low level, and it builds up over time and takes time to get rid of it. The dark periods. 

Physical Pressure: From physical pressure put on the face either through bloating, wind, perfume/scents. Whatever pressures or fills the face.

False emotions do not feed you any good resolved memories and only what might be causing whatever youre feeling. 

Your brain will present any ongoing issues happening in your life and if none are obvious starts presenting you with what has resolved badly at the anger/worry/sad level that you are experiencing. 

I believe this theory explains roid rage, post-partum depression, obsession and other behavioural issues.

What we all need to understand is that our brains are just trying to help us solve physical problems it thinks are mental problems it should be handling, while the presented solutions are just fuelling them for real, in the process.

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## Suzi

Hi and welcome to DWD. 

Whilst I think I see where you are coming from, it's not something that I think is applicable for everyone. 
I don't think for one second that being seen by mental health professionals or taking medication for mental health makes you less than "sane." Is it only those two medications you have taken? There are so many different types, you may have found another one or a combination which helps better? Do you have a support network around you? 

As someone who has had post natal depression, I don't think it was linked at all to my face feeling overwhelmed, and I have nursed my husband through several breakdowns, severe depression and panic attacks so bad that he couldn't leave the house - again, I don't think it was led by his face either.. 

However much I disagree with your opinion, I'm not muting you and your thoughts as we all have different ways of dealing with our own mental health.

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Jaquaia (09-02-19)

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## Ken Willidau

Thanks for putting up my post. As one psychiatrist put it, 'You have absolutely no mental issues. None that I can treat. If there is something wrong with you, you are doing it to yourself.'. I have been on a couple of other medications. They just don't help. No effect starting them, and I quit both the Effexor (highest dosage) and Prozac (2nd highest dosage) cold turkey after a year and nothing. I can't remember the other ones. 

This theory would be more for the people who are sitting there thinking about something like what someone said to them at work 30 years ago. Where you are constantly thinking about issues that have no relevance, anymore, other than they just keep popping into your head making you mad, again, and again, and again. It wouldn't apply to people suffering the real depression of a tragedy or loss.

As for a support network, never heard of it. (LOL) It's hard to get support when you're the happiest person people know. When I'm engaged with them.

Thanks, I'll be interested to see what anyone else thinks of it.

I hope your husband is doing better. And you as well.

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## Angie

Ok depression does not need a reason it happens for many different reasons or sometimes for no reason that can be found, my issues from years ago are the reasons for my depression also ptsd and anxiety and what people say to others can have a lasting effect on people either positively or negatively.

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Jaquaia (09-02-19)

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## Paula

Hi and welcome. I have a question, if you are the happiest person people know, and I assume therefore have positive facial expressions in general, how is it your face affecting your mood?

I have to say I found your ideas difficult to stomach. I am by nature a positive, optimistic person and dont go around with an angry/worried/sad face (even when Im struggling - youd never know Im ill from my expressions most of the time).  I find it difficult to believe that my 3 decades of illness is caused by me having a sad face all that time. Mental health is far more complicated than that and our brains are immensely intricate - we know so little about them - so your theory is over simplistic and doesnt pay any respect by the wonderful complexity of the human body and mind

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Jaquaia (09-02-19),OldMike (09-02-19)

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## Jaquaia

I completely disagree with you. Especially with this part;




> It wouldn't apply to people suffering the real depression of a tragedy or loss.


It's attitudes like this that prevent people reaching out for help. Depression IS real, it's not just down to loss or tragedy. There are numerous scientific studies, one in particular discovered that the brain is noticeably different in people with depression than in those without. One study discovered that in 24 women with a history of depression, their hippocampus was between 9% and 13% smaller than those without depression. The more episodes of depression, the smaller their hippocampus got. That's a physical change in the physiology of the brain. Not all of those cases will be down to loss or tragedy. Scientific studies have also shown that there is a genetic link and those who have a family history of depression are more likely to suffer themselves. Depression is medically recognised as a symptom of some illnesses; thyroid disease, autoimmune diseases, vitamin deficiencies to name but a few. There is also beginning to be research into the possibility that depression can be linked to inflammation, a theory postulated by the psychiatrist Edward Bullmore.

Sometimes people who seem to have their life together and going great can suffer with depression. Considering that as not "real depression" completely negates and diminishes their experiences and could be dangerous if it discourages them from getting help.

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OldMike (09-02-19),Paula (09-02-19),Suzi (09-02-19)

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## Ken Willidau

I am the happiest person people know because I do have positive facial expressions when I am with them. It's when things end or I disengage that the face drops (the switch) and the false emotions come into play.

I don't know why any idea would be hard to stomach. Sometimes things are as complicated as we make them. Why can't your face hurt as much as your legs from over-exercising it. If depression hurts why can't hurt depress and it being a two-way street? Who's to say the brain isn't flawed. And it is trying to fix physical issues with mental solutions?

Who's to say there isn't false depression? And who's to say that however you get there it's not going to have the same effect on the brain? I believe I suffer from false depression. It is depression. But it's what is causing mine that I question. All of my thoughts are on my brain all the time. I question what brings them to the forefront at times.

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## Jaquaia

I tend to believe scientific research that has been thoroughly peer-reviewed and whose results are often replicated by fellow scientists, over random theories with no scientific basis. You're entitled to believe that you have false depression. I believe the science that shows depression is a real, complex and not fully understood illness, casued by a multitude of reasons.

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Paula (09-02-19)

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## Ken Willidau

Every scientific basis started from a random theory with none, whatsoever. You should be more open-minded. This might help people who are suffering from it and it being another form of depression in one of the multitude of reasons.

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## Suzi

I think that "depression" is very, very different from "feeling a bit blue for a long time"... I wonder if your theory fits more with that, rather than actual depression. 
Actual depression needs help, it is a really real and serious illness that can in some cases end up as fatal. I think that every case should be treated seriously and have far more real help, rather than different variations of "have you tried xyz diet?" or "try smiling more, it'll help" or "try sniffing lavender, it cured my aunties best friends goldfishes friends owner" or "pull yourself together"...... 

I'd say that your psych who said... 


> As one psychiatrist put it, 'You have absolutely no mental issues. None that I can treat. If there is something wrong with you, you are doing it to yourself.'


 was really brave to have been so sure... I would assume that you would have been experiencing some symptoms which made you head to a psych in the first place? What happened to those symptoms? They got better/went away/weren't there in the first place? I have never met a psych (and I've known quite a few) who would ever put their professional lives on the line like that... 

I've been running DWD for over 11 years and I can honestly say that I've never come across anyone who I could say wasn't experiencing a serious illness.

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OldMike (09-02-19)

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## Jaquaia

Scientific basis generally starts from observations which are then examined in greater detail. Lorenz and Tinbergen for example, noticed a behaviour, made a hypothesis and then created an experiment to test that hypothesis. It wasn't just a theory pulled out of thin air. There was a mode of scientific inquiry based on an observation which was then investigated further. These ladies will tell you that I am one of the most open-minded people out there, but if I need to be more open-minded, then you need to seriously consider the language you use. Coming onto a depression forum and talking about false depression and it just being down to facial expressions could have very serious repercussions. For someone coming here for support, if your post was the first one they saw, it has a potential to reinforce the stigma prevalent in society and cause them to think that there is nothing wrong with them at a time they really need support.

I can cite multiple academic sources for my views, it's nothing to do with me not being open-minded. I make my judgements on the evidence available to me, evidence that is based on decades of scientific reasearch. Come back with some research that backs up what you have to say an I will consider it.

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Allalone (09-02-19),OldMike (09-02-19),Paula (09-02-19),Suzi (09-02-19)

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## Ken Willidau

I've been to about 5 psychiatrists and they all say about the same thing. That one was an exact quote. I was in despair and had attempted suicide at that time. I was crying when I left. How do you fix nothing wrong when you know something's wrong? That's when I started thinking that if it isn't mental, then, what is it?

This is my problem. When I am with people or am working on anything, I am okay. It's when I disengage that all these thoughts start flooding my head. If something just happened, it would be about that and if not I think my brain looks for something trying to solve it. Like those days when you're worried about something, but you can't figure out what it is. And you start going through all the things that might be worrying you. It's like the worry is there in your face first, and your brain is trying to figure out why. And thinking about what could be worrying you starts worrying you for real.

On May 21 2006 I stopped doing just about everything except going to one bar (no computer, little driving). The bar had great seats. Arm rests, padded seat and 360-swivel. On Sept 11, it was gone. I felt ungripped. After 35 years. It was freeing. All my cynicism, fog, thinking was gone. It was a life change. I bought my laptop. Buying clothes. Doing stuff for the house. Everything wasn't a struggle/what's the point. By December 18, I wrote in a blog that I could feel it creeping back in and I don't want to go back there, again.

I believe I stress out my face/body and when I get alone and my face is disengaged/healing it mimics emotions that start the thoughts coming. The thoughts are as maddening as they were. But it's them being brought to me as a possible reason for the feeling that puts that thought on my mind and not just in my mind and support the feeling. 

The only good thing I can say about it is that it gets a lot of work done for me trying to avoid it. Even if I think that exacerbates the problem, itself.

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## Suzi

> I've been to about 5 psychiatrists and they all say about the same thing. That one was an exact quote. I was in despair and had attempted suicide at that time. I was crying when I left. How do you fix nothing wrong when you know something's wrong? That's when I started thinking that if it isn't mental, then, what is it?


Surely there HAS to be something wrong if it was making you want to end your life?




> This is my problem. When I am with people or am working on anything, I am okay. It's when I disengage that all these thoughts start flooding my head. If something just happened, it would be about that and if not I think my brain looks for something trying to solve it. Like those days when you're worried about something, but you can't figure out what it is. And you start going through all the things that might be worrying you. It's like the worry is there in your face first, and your brain is trying to figure out why. And thinking about what could be worrying you starts worrying you for real.


I think having loads of thoughts flood your head when you are not busy is something that a lot of people can relate to, but instead of thinking that it's in your face first (which I'm struggling with as a concept) maybe it IS a real thing and not a false emotion at all? Have you tried other techniques such as meditation or mindfulness? 




> On May 21 2006 I stopped doing just about everything except going to one bar (no computer, little driving). The bar had great seats. Arm rests, padded seat and 360-swivel. On Sept 11, it was gone. I felt ungripped. After 35 years. It was freeing. All my cynicism, fog, thinking was gone. It was a life change. I bought my laptop. Buying clothes. Doing stuff for the house. Everything wasn't a struggle/what's the point. By December 18, I wrote in a blog that I could feel it creeping back in and I don't want to go back there, again.


If anyone is solely reliant on one thing - be it a bar, a forum, a cafe, a supermarket, a park then it isn't an option suddenly then that's always going to be difficult to deal with. 
Maybe it's about a balance, not an all or nothing approach?




> I believe I stress out my face/body and when I get alone and my face is disengaged/healing it mimics emotions that start the thoughts coming. The thoughts are as maddening as they were. But it's them being brought to me as a possible reason for the feeling that puts that thought on my mind and not just in my mind and support the feeling. 
> 
> The only good thing I can say about it is that it gets a lot of work done for me trying to avoid it. Even if I think that exacerbates the problem, itself.


Do you know whether you had a trigger for the way that you were feeling - apart from moving classrooms each lesson? Do you live with others? Do you socialise? Eat properly? Drink alcohol? Take any other medication?

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## Paula

Could you tell me, Ken, whether this theory is based on any scientific basis or otherwise? Have you got any evidence you can share with us, other than a feeling you have this may be true? And what is your reason for coming to DWD? Is it to join a community of members who understand depression for support or to get this challenging theory out there?

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## Ken Willidau

1. I have had an unusual life. Child sexual abuse, father hitting me, shunning me, THE high school fag in the 70s, bullying, 4 people have tried to kill me, assault by a teacher, shunned by another, sexual assault by a doctor, sexual harassment at work, remembering 7 to 9 years old, that I had blocked out, when I was 28 years old, and realizing I have been living from the consequences of those years since then. A lot more and the day to day. It goes on. I should be constantly in despair.

But, I rarely think about any of that stuff. Well, some of it. But, it's the gnawing stuff that gets me. 

2. I mainly think about one job period, now. From more than 20 years ago. It just starts coming to me. It's meaningless, now. That's the frustrating part. I'm getting as mad as I feel now at what never really bothered me then. But I had justifications for putting up with it then and not now. I joke about everything with people (a problem) but it's when I get these feelings that I am not in as forgiving a mood, now, to just let it go in my mind. Someone once asked me 'How much does it cost you to be that mellow?'. I have far worse to be thinking about than that job but work is my number one priority and I think my brain throws it at me first.

3. But I think that one bar helped me. Just going there and off the computer and the great chair (swivel) and not driving de-stressed my body. I think it's an accumulation for me. After 3 months in grade 7 attempting suicide - never before. The 3 months to get rid of it. The 3 months to get it back. 

4. I'm social, jokey. I eat well. I drink but never at home - I go out to socialize / to not be alone. I was living with my mother with Alzheimer's who has gone into a nursing home a couple of months ago, which isn't helping now being alone but wasn't an issue then. I smoke pot (but not then) , but I've become so tolerant of that it doesn't have much effect, anymore. No other medications.

I'm that person who people say to 'You're living the dream.'. I once wrote 'I am using everything I have stored to stop history from repeating itself to do it to myself a million times over again.'. I think when I get these feelings for no reason my brain is throwing out unresolved stuff from the past thinking that might be the issue. There's no criteria for a search. Like, give me anything that's making me or made me angry.

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## Ken Willidau

I'm just trying to help. I write joke books. I thought when I put this here (or anywhere) that people would be saying 'Yes. That's it.'. I wasn't expecting a negative reaction and, at least, a 'That's interesting. I wonder.'. I truly believe this is the reason for my depression.

When I mentioned the impossible jar and getting the rage in your face, I think that's what happens with roid rage. Making the rage face lifting huge weights and the steroids working out the face and them feeling enraged after it. Their face has 'frozen' like that and then when it starts firming up will cause a rage feeling.

Forward head motion is another example of causing it.

Actually, doing anything too much that's resulting in a hangover effect from the exertion to your face and not making the connection between cause and effect.

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## Paula

Ive added an additional trigger warning to your thread, Ken, as youve discussed abuse. As with Suzis edit, its nothing for you to worry about, its DWD policy to protect all our members

Im not going to say yes, thats it when I firmly believe it really isnt it. Youve told Jaq she didnt have an open mind when actually what she was saying is strongly backed up by decades of scientific evidence and proof. I appreciate this is what you feel about your own health but Id be very surprised if you thought most people you discuss this with would agree with your theory. Id be happy to consider any evidence you have, though

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## Suzi

Hold on, you think that your depression - or depressive emotion - is caused by your face when you have decades of abuse and trauma? Your psych couldn't find an issue when it strikes me you haven't dealt with any of that at all????

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## Ken Willidau

Yes, I do.

I wasn't going to put this here. I'm probably going to get every trigger alert for this one. I wrote a document for Canada's Bell_Letstalk and put it on the ms drive for people to read (but they muted me - which is what I think you're going to do).

PDF: Link removed by Suzi

This explains it in more detail. Sort of. I only got it half finished by Jan 30 but it makes the point. And, Paula, it's one person I convinced about this.

I don't know why you're being defensive about it. I think in my first post the first thing I said was that I have come up with a theory.

And I don't know why Jaq would be saying I am enforcing a stigma. My depression is as real as anyone else's is. I'm just offering a possible reason for it. And that it's a false reason for me to have it.

I think you're going to mute me after reading it, but I do appreciate you putting this on your site.

Thank you.

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## Suzi

Not muting you at all. I don't know why you keep suggesting I would... But I have removed the link as per DWD rules.

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## Jaquaia

Part of the stigma of depression is dismissing something as not real, not important. In your second post you clearly say that real depression is due to loss and tragedy. You seem to be saying that everything else is false, untrue, down to how our face interprets our facial expressions. For someone already struggling to reach out and ask for help, that attitude could have a hugely detrimental effect. We've dealt with lots of people on here who haven't reached out for proper help because of similar attitudes. As I said, with certain things you need to be careful about the language to use. Phrasing things a certain way can have a negative impact on a person and cause more harm than good.There is a very visible campaign in the UK to teach people that depression is an actual, real illness with real symptoms caused by real issues, both internal and external. 

Also, no one is being defensive, they have countered your theory with scientific evidence. It's how progress in medicine and science works. Accepted theories and treatment change with the presentation of new evidence. You've provided none to support your theory. You're surprised that no one accepts your theory when you've provided no evidence to support your theory. In contrast, there are thousands of studies supporting the treatments already in place. That knowledge has been gained by qualified scientists and doctors doing thousands of hours of research, experiments and clinical trials, which have then been corroborated by their peers, often by replicating their experiments. Very few people are going to automatically believe a theory that has no evidence other than anecdotal in the face of all that scientific evidence based on thousands of hours of research and study.

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## Ken Willidau

Suzi. Sorry. I didn't know about links.

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## Ken Willidau

I am going to refer to it now as physical depression and mental depression.

And, you haven't countered my theory with scientific evidence. You've only told me that science exists.

And, in some ways I do have science on my side. I just did some searches on Forward Head Posture and Ergonomics and the link to depression/stress/anxiety and there's lots of people studying that and saying it's one of the causes. Maybe I've figured out why. I'm going to send it to people working on those studies and see what they think.

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## Jaquaia

Depression is mental, it's classified as a mental illness, not a physical illness, it just can have physical causes and symptoms. Not really a better classification than real/false depression. 

I clearly referred to scientific studies, I can provide links if you'd like, extremely easily. I'm not sure how easily available they will be as they tend to be in academic/professional  journals which require subscription, so it's possible you would only be able to read the abstract. I can access the vast majority through my university. If that isn't using scientific evidence then I don't know what is. And that comment itself tells me that there's no point even debating this with you.

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## Ken Willidau

Apparently, I'm not exactly breaking new ground here, myself. I'm just adding a twist to it. Mine is a physical illness that causes mental issues. And if you can find a study that debunks my theory, I'd be happy to read it.

Here's just a few of the blurbs on a search of 'forward head posture depression':

The truth is, almost every single doctor who has created alternative treatment continues to ignore the real cause of depression: forward head posture.

Forward head posture is bad on the body because each time we get ... It leads to depression, anxiety, stress and all other negative terms that ...

The next time you're feeling sad and depressed, pay close attention to your posture. According to cognitive scientists, you'll likely be slumped over with your neck and shoulders curved forward and head looking down.

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## Allalone

I’m sad and depressed but I’m certainly not ‘slumped over with my head and shoulders curved forward and my head looking down’. 
I’m walking the dog and trying to get on with my day.

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Paula (10-02-19),Suzi (10-02-19)

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## Angie

Ken I don't have bad posture and also don't slump but I have depression or are you saying that mine is not real?

There are a multitude of reasons for depression and sometimes none that can be found but to expect people to just believe your theory without backing it up can be harmful to others. You also seem to think that your theory is the only reason, have you ever thought looking at a previous post you have that the reason may be down to some of the things that you have been through ?

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## Suzi

I'm looking at my husband who is sitting upright with his head upright. He is looking forward. He is still depressed and has been dealing with his mental health since he was a child..... he's now 43....

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Allalone (10-02-19)

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## Ken Willidau

Allalone,

No, I'm saying others think that physical exertion to the body can lead to depression and that's just one way one person thinks you could be feeling depressed. And from what I originally wrote, if it has accumulated in your body, over time, whatever you're doing, now, isn't going to matter and you could be being affected by it without realizing it. Right now, I am chronically depressed, and I believe it would take 3 months of me doing next to nothing to get rid of it.

Angie,

I don't think I have ever said that my theory is the only reason. And only that it is a possibility that this could be causing it for you. I believe it causes it for me. And I think the blurbs about forward head posture is at least some back up from the science community that some believe that there is a physical connection to depression. And, regardless if it is physical or mental depression, it's still depression. It's how you got there that's different. And, in fact, I would say that physical depression is actually worse than mental depression because there is no obvious reason for it. I once wrote 'I wish something was really wrong, right now, so everything else wasn't.' and that's because it just starts throwing everything at you, trying to fix it mentally but it's not going to work.

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## Suzi

I have worse posture than my husband - I also have significant spinal issues other physical disabilities - and apart from PND which was caused by hormones and traumas of birth I don't have a diagnosed mental health issue....

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## Ken Willidau

I'd compare it to working out. If you work out for years and become muscular, you don't go back to being a 98-pound weakling the moment you stop. If you stopped for a month you probably still wouldn't be, but you would gradually go back to what your normal body shape was. It takes time for it to reverse itself.

And it's one of those things where you might not want to do it that day, but you know you'll feel worse if you don't and once you start doing it you feel better, but you're making it feel a little bit worse for next time.

I planned on taking that 3 months off last July until I came up with this. I was sitting on the porch all summer. But the chair was terrible. One of those white stackable ones. It was just making matters worse. But I wouldn't know it for a while because when I would sit in it I would feel better at first because it's stretching the muscles it's hurting (like working out), but over time it just got worse and worse as those muscles became more stressed out (and more inflamed/bigger over time).

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## Paula

> Allalone,
> 
> No, I'm saying others think that physical exertion to the body can lead to depression and that's just one way one person thinks you could be feeling depressed. And from what I originally wrote, if it has accumulated in your body, over time, whatever you're doing, now, isn't going to matter and you could be being affected by it without realizing it. Right now, I am chronically depressed, and I believe it would take 3 months of me doing next to nothing to get rid of it.
> 
> Angie,
> 
> I don't think I have ever said that my theory is the only reason. And only that it is a possibility that this could be causing it for you. I believe it causes it for me. And I think the blurbs about forward head posture is at least some back up from the science community that some believe that there is a physical connection to depression. And, regardless if it is physical or mental depression, it's still depression. It's how you got there that's different. And, in fact, I would say that physical depression is actually worse than mental depression because there is no obvious reason for it. I once wrote 'I wish something was really wrong, right now, so everything else wasn't.' and that's because it just starts throwing everything at you, trying to fix it mentally but it's not going to work.


Im sorry if this seems blunt but can you not see that the trauma you suffered in your childhood is far, far more likely to be a cause of your depression than your posture? Do you not think you could be using this theory so you dont have to deal with how the abuse affected you? 

And pretty much every expert there is does not advocate doing next to nothing as a valid treatment for depression. Exercise is known to increase the happy hormones and significantly improves depression symptoms.

Ken, I believe you really need to talk to your doctor about whats going on, all of it. 

Just a note, Ken, we try not to say that one persons depression is worse than someone else - how everybody here is feeling has just as much an impact on their lives as anyone elses does.

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## Suzi

I have to say that I totally agree with Paula. Have you ever had therapy about the large amount of abuse you've suffered?

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## Angie

Ken I am copying your reply to here so I can reply

"_I don't think I have ever said that my theory is the only reason. And only that it is a possibility that this could be causing it for you. I believe it causes it for me. And I think the blurbs about forward head posture is at least some back up from the science community that some believe that there is a physical connection to depression. And, regardless if it is physical or mental depression, it's still depression. It's how you got there that's different. And, in fact, I would say that physical depression is actually worse than mental depression because there is no obvious reason for it. I once wrote 'I wish something was really wrong, right now, so everything else wasn't.' and that's because it just starts throwing everything at you, trying to fix it mentally but it's not going to work."


You're making an assumption that its a possibility it could be causing it for me and others. Now searching for your "theory" and it is only a theory most of the things that come up are for chiropractors, these have nothing to do with mental health.

Why are you so intent on pushing this theory when you won't show a proven source for it to us?_

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## Allalone

Over the years I’ve had quite a few episodes of depression. I played hockey regularly from I was 12 until I was 36. I exercised a lot more then than I am now and can definitely say it helped me. I walk the dog now instead of running and playing hockey and that helps me. 

As for one type of depression being worse than another, that’s not something I can agree with. How can it be worse for one person? Because I had a crap childhood and my friend didn’t does that mean that my depression is worse than hers? 

I’m not discounting your theory but I’m finding it difficult to get my head round it. You’ve given very little evidence to back it up.

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## Ken Willidau

Angie,

I am not pushing anything, I am offering it as possible help. I have posted it once and replied reasonably to every response. 

And, it's not like I came on here and said pills are a waste of time and psychiatrists are, too, and science is wrong and my theory is the answer to everyone's problems and if you don't listen to me, you'll never be better.

And, if I am right and the chiropractors are right, then chiropractors do have something to do with mental health.

And I am the source for this theory. Do you want a DNA sample as proof? Sheesh.

Allalone and Paula,

Well, I know that my depression is worse at times than at others.

And all that trauma in my childhood is only an issue if I'm thinking about it. That's what I am saying is the problem with physical depression. It's making me think about it. It's presenting it to my conscience as a possible reason for why I am feeling the way I do.

If I am having a rage day, this might all be brought to the surface (I think I mentioned that one job is one-stop shopping and I usually just rage against that). I would be enraged by it all. But, if I went to these memories on purpose and thought about them, I wouldn't be enraged. I am more forgiving normally than that. I'd make excuses in my mind for my father (it was a different time / he might have been gay himself etc) and shoulder some of the blame for my actions and putting it more into context and realize that I don't remember everything and what I have forgotten might put everything in a different light. I'm not as forgiving when I feel enraged and it's just throwing at me things that enrage me. And I think the brain is throwing anything unresolved that might be the problem for how you're feeling, if nothing is happening now that's got you enraged. It's trying to help you solve a physical feeling but it's not going to do it with thoughts and could be making matters worse if you act upon your reactions from what you're thinking.

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## Suzi

Sorry, I don't think you've directly answered my questions.... So I'm putting them here to ask again... 




> Surely there HAS to be something wrong if it was making you want to end your life?
> 
> I think having loads of thoughts flood your head when you are not busy is something that a lot of people can relate to, but instead of thinking that it's in your face first (which I'm struggling with as a concept) maybe it IS a real thing and not a false emotion at all? Have you tried other techniques such as meditation or mindfulness? 
> 
> Maybe it's about a balance, not an all or nothing approach?
> 
> Do you know whether you had a trigger for the way that you were feeling - apart from moving classrooms each lesson? Do you live with others? Do you socialise? Eat properly? Drink alcohol? Take any other medication?





> Hold on, you think that your depression - or depressive emotion - is caused by your face when you have decades of abuse and trauma? Your psych couldn't find an issue when it strikes me you haven't dealt with any of that at all????





> I have worse posture than my husband - I also have significant spinal issues other physical disabilities - and apart from PND which was caused by hormones and traumas of birth I don't have a diagnosed mental health issue....





> Have you ever had therapy about the large amount of abuse you've suffered?


Thanks.

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## Suzi

*ADMIN NOTE:* As an important aside, I'm going to ask you to be mindful of the way that some of what you have said may come across. Making comments like Jaq not being open minded, asking Angie if she wanted a DNA sample etc just aren't something I'm happy to allow on here. Please remember that the team members are giving up their time to help me to run this place - somewhere that has meaning and importance to so many others. 
You have belittled the effect that abuse and the horrors of living through those kind of experiences can have on people by completely ignoring that with regard to your own mental health. 
Suggesting that depression may not be real and "just in your face" is against what I stand for. It's so hard for so many to ask for help with their mental health and to suggest that it may be a "false emotion" really isn't something that I'm happy for that message to be something I'm seen to promote. 
I am not intending to "mute you", but I am standing up for what I believe and what I promote here and on the facebook page. I have worked very hard to get the the reputation that I have built up over the years and actually now being recommended by Mental Health Professionals.. 
We have asked repeatedly for more research to back up what you are saying, but you have not got anything to show, I've done some research and can't find a shred of evidence to back up your claims/theories. Maybe you're onto the route cause and can cure depression - that'd be amazing and I'd be happy to eat humble pie... However I can't see that happening. 

I am going to close this thread now and ask that you do not start any more regarding this theory. Thank you.

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Allalone (10-02-19),Angie (10-02-19),Jaquaia (11-02-19),OldMike (13-02-19),Paula (10-02-19)

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