# Help and Advice > Related Illness/medication/alternatives >  Not sure what I am, I argue with my thoughts a lot

## simonp

HI, I'm a middle aged male and I'm on antidepressants and have been told numerous times that I am suffering from depression.

Appologies for the length, but I want to try and explain how my condition affects me.

I also have a few other health issues, I suffer from CFS/ME which sometimes causes things like short term memory loss and other symptoms. 

I have many of the classic signs of depression.

I avoid answering the phone, I dislike talking to strangers, even with very good friends, sometimes if I know they are coming around, I really wish they wouldn't.

I cant handle the slightest bit of stress, if I get stressed, I feel physically exhausted and can sleep for hours.

That said, I wouldn't really say I am anxious, I have a sort of "cant be bothered" feeling in my head rather than panicking over talking to them. But if I have to say make a phone call, I almost have to pluck up the courage to do so, but when I eventually force myself to do it, it always goes fine and I don't feel anxious at all when actually on the phone. 

What does concern me and I have googled and cant find anything quite like what I experience, is my conscience seems to have a different personality to me.

I'm not hearing voices, it's my conscience, the thoughts I have, just like anyone might think to themselves "hmm what do I do next" or think to themselves "that's an interesting book" it's that voice/conscience.

I am a very very empathetic person, I try to see the best in everybody. I hate it when people refer to drug addicts as druggy scum etc. I don't like it when people talk about the homeless in the same sort of way.

I don't like violence, don't like watching things like boxing or wrestling (although I don't mind a violent action film, I have no problem differentiating between reality and fiction/fantasy)

I also can neither understand or tolerate any form of racism, I simply cannot fathom how someone can dislike someone else because of where they originated from or the colour of their skin etc. It simply does not compute with me.

I'm happily married, and what I'm about to describe next, never ever happens to my wife, kids or friends I've known for years.

Due to the nature of what I'm describing, I'm not going to use the actual words, but hopefully you can understand the problem I'm having.

What I find happening almost all the time (especially if I'm stressed and tired, which is quiet often), is when I have to talk to someone (I try to avoid it at all costs), while part of me is usually thinking "he, she seems a nice friendly person", my thoughts are to say to them in a derogatory way, "why don't you just go away" or if they are a person of different race, my conscience voice is calling them a very derogatory racist name.

And it simply isn't me at all.

Even when I see doctors etc for the first time (it's fine usually when I've got to know them and seen them on multiple occasions) , they might be a pretty lady etc but the thought in my head just wants me to say "god your an ugly ....."

I also think strange things. I premeditate others being rude to me and premeditate my aggressive vocal response (never ever been physically violent in my life) 

For example, I might be walking my dog, I see someone in their garden and I imagine them saying to me "I hope your going to clear up after your dog"

and I rehearse the entire way I'm going to be abusive back to them, and how the argument is going to go

me "I hope your not a pedophile"
them "How dare you call me a pedophile"
me "how dare you presume I don't clear up after my dog. If you can make untrue judgments based on zero evidence about me, then I'm going to do the same to you"

and of course I walk past and they either say "morning" or nothing or make a comment on how nice my dog is. 

And then I see another person in the distance and another similar scenario takes place in my mind.

It is so far from the reality of what I'm really like.

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## simonp

continued:


I also am a bit like a Jekyll and Hyde character, I can flip at the slightest bit of stress and scream abuse I don't mean at someone, then the next second feel as calm as anything. 

For example, I had stepped onto a zebra crossing and a car went across it without stopping. OK that will get most of us angry, but I went from being as calm as anything, to shouting very very loudly (so that most people in a 1/4 mile radius probably heard) "its a zebra crossing you stupid **** idiot your supposed to **** stop" Then by the time I was over the crossing I was as calm as anything again.

And while I don't care if others choose to swear, I try not to (unless I say hit my thumb with a hammer) 

The trouble is, I'm a big built man with a very common and rough accent, and while I've never been violent, I do come across as very very threatening and aggressive when I'm like that.

I can control it, but only if I'm permanently concentrating on not loosing it, for example a GP appointment, I will come across as calm mannered and very very friendly and everyone at my GP always s smiles and jokes with me. But me being aware and concentrating for a short period of time, is completely different from me being in the work place where my mind is distracted with my job, and someone saying something that makes me snap.

At the moment I am unable to work due to my depression and other problems, but it's mainly the aspects I've described in this post that's stopping me from working.

I know if a manager was rude to me, without thinking I would be 10 times as rude back, the same if a customer was rude. 

Even at home, while I have the loveliest and most understanding wife anyone could wish for, occasionally, if I'm stressed, say I've received a letter from a debt collection agency that I'm in the middle of typing a letter to, she might ask me something nice like "would you liker a coffee"?

And because I'm not concentrating, and because I'm very very stressed and depressed , without thinking I will respond along the lines of "oh for expletives sake" cant you see I'm busy, expletive off" and literally 10 seconds later, I'm appologising to her.

Thankfully we've been together over 30 years and we are best of friends and she knows this isn't really me, hence ignores it (but it cant be nice for her) , but if I can be like this to her when stressed and all she#s done is ask me if I want a coffee, imagine what I can get like if someone I don't know is rude to me.

I worry about myself for two reasons.

1) I want to work, but there's no way on this planet I will hold down a job as I can no longer handle the slightest bit of stress, hence my outbursts will mean I probably wont last a day

2) I will end up putting myself in danger. When I flip, I'm not thinking, it wouldn't matter to me if I was shouting and swearing at say a bunch of 20 people armed with weapons, hence I'm very very likely at some point say this to the wrong people and end up being badly beaten or worse. 

I am in financial difficulty which also doesn't help matters.

As for everything else, I don't have suicide thoughts ever, that's not to say that sometimes when another letter drops through the door, I don't sometimes wonder what's the point of living, but that's as far as it goes.

But I do find at least once a week now, I'm having such a bad day that even though I'm supposed to follow a strict diet for health reasons, I end up thinking to myself "I cant work, I have no money, there's simply no point if I cant have some enjoyment" hence I'll go and stuff my face with stuff I shouldn't eat and drink a load of alcohol I shouldn't be drinking on the meds I'm on etc.

I don't worry about things such as nuclear war, or whats happening etc and I also never ever find myself surprised or shocked at something I've seen on the news that the rest of the country etc seems totally upset by, I suppose in some ways while I'm empathetic to peoples plight, I've long learned how low we as humans can act, hence nothing surprises me anymore.

Most times when I read something that say a group of scientists have concluded after a study, or I read about say the shock of the MPs expense scandal I often wonder if I come from the same planet, as I presumed these things were already common knowledge to everyone for years. 

Anyway, sorry for the long post, trying to put as much detail in as possible.

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## Suzi

Hi and welcome to DWD. 
It does sound like a lot of the first symptoms you mention fit into the "classic depression" box, the anger and outbursts not so much so - but I'm not a Dr. Have you spoken to your Dr about this? Have you told them in as much detail as you've told us? 
I have CFS along with other chronic physical illnesses, so I sympathise. 
What meds are you taking?

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## Paula

Hi and welcome to DWD. From what youve said, I take it your doctor doesnt know all this? You really need to talk to them, give them all the information (perhaps print out your posts here and show them to your GP?), and take things from there.  Have you had CBT? That may be something your doctor might want to refer you for?

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## Dark_Baphomet

I have had a lot of intrusive thoughts just like that before, I haven't acted on them but I'm really quiet, anger issues maybe? Like pent up anger from a source, maybe money as it gets you down and is put of your control and it builds up so it's kind of like a psychosis.. I guess tell your doctor, I never did because I didn't want to tell people in case it was like schizophrenia or something but I think it's better to know so that it can be helped I guess

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## simonp

Many thanks.  This is probably going to be a bit of a ramble, sorry.  And I apologise in advance if any of it sounds abrupt.

Reading back over what I posted, I think Ive probably made what I'm like, seem a lot worse than the reality, I just wanted to get it all down on paper.

Regarding me having thoughts where I want to say something nasty to someone, I don't have those thoughts about everyone I meet, or all the time, it's more if I'm stressed and/or very tired, and someone is talking to me (or necessity means I must talk to someone) that my mind wants to say something abusive to them.
I THINK it's because I don't really want to be in that situation so while Im remaining polite, my brain is rebelling?

It's the same with things like having to talk to shop staff, when I'm tired and stressed, the last thing I want is any small talk, and my derogatory thoughts are a sort of wall.

With me pre-empting conversations, its more that my mind is constantly buzzing, never ever switching off, and I'm thinking "what if that person xyz..." ,  hence due to my stress, I get angry about the thought of them doing what I've imagined, hence the "if they say that, I will say this" thoughts.

I suppose I feel that I think completely differently to other people, and often feel that I don't belong. Not in an unwanted way, more I feel we are two different species of humans wired in two completely different ways.

I've been on antidepressants for more years than I can remember. 

Originally was on one called something along the lines of Seroxat (I know it was the main ingredient, cant remember the exact name. 

My old  GP wanted to change to Venlafaxine, and I was on those for many years.
I took two tablets daily, 75mg and 37.5mg

I now also have spinal problems, arthritis in both my lower and upper back (upper back often causing me severe neck headaches lasting hours) but none of the pain killers worked (or those that did anything, made me feel completely out of it).

My GP suggested changing from Venlafaxine to Duloxetine as apart from being an antidepressant, it is also a pain inhibitor.

I started taking it (one 30mg tablet) twice a day about 6 months ago, and to be honest, I feel better on these than the venlafaxine. Hard to explain, in my non depressed times (or not as depressed as usual) I feel much better since changing, although I couldnt pinpoint why or describe why.

My GP is aware that I feel very Jekyll and Hyde like, but I've not gone into the details with her, mainly because like Dark_Baphomet, the last thing I want to do is be labelled with some sort of schizophrenia, and I don't want to be put on any more meds that mess with my brain.

My GP has suggested I refer myself to wellbeing (www.readytochange.org.uk) but has stressed if I don't feel up to it, I don't have to.

The thing is, it's taken me ages  to put all this into writing, I really dont think I could say it in person or want to talk about it in person to anyone  (and I admit my name isn't really Simon). 

I had a few experiences with counselling in my youth and I loathed it  (am in my 50s), I (possibly arrogantly) feel I know both what they are going to say and  what they are going to suggest, and I kind of feel it's all claptrap  (apologies to any counsellors reading this, but that is how I feel)  and know it wont work with me, just the thought of speaking to one makes me cringe.  

I also cant stand any sort of forced group work, I didn't like staff training that involved group work when I was fit and well, the last thing I wasnt to do now is discuss my depression out loud in a room with other depressed people, I appreciate this may sound a bit hypocritical as I've just joined this forum, but on here, I'm both anonymous and aren't put on the spot with other people staring at me.  

As for my health, I seem to get one thing after another, just when one thing seems fixed, along comes something else to throw me backwards.

Had knee problems since my youth, numerous operations on both, then had a Hiatus Hernia that was diagnosed in the late 80s, in the 90s they monitored me over 24 hrs (hand held gadget with thing up my nose) and said it was a bad hernia but they aren't going to operate on someone my age, went on about budgets and said they would rather treat me with medication.

By the time I was 25, I could get through a large tube of deep heat in less than a week on my knees, and a large bottle of Gaviscon for my hiatus hernia in the same amount of time (or less)

There was a photograph in the building I worked at of all the staff that moved from the old building, I was one of them, and the photo was about 18 months old.

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## simonp

A newer member of staff commented on it, saying that I look like a completely different person, it was around 6 months previously that my problems really started.

I was constantly tired and feeling sick, ill, lethargic (and working about 10 - 12 hr days often 6 - 7 days a week). GP said I had a virus.  I'd go back a month later and was told I must have caught another virus.

Then they discovered I had some weird stomach bug called "Helicobacter pylori" and put me on a mega strong dosage of two antibiotics, and my tiredness then got a lot worse.

And of course when youre tired, youre snappy (not talking about what I've described earlier about me loosing it) 

And I was having more and more days off sick, and also finding myself unable to take my bosses silly arguments without snapping back at him.

In the end, when totally exhausted, I wrote his boss an email saying what I thought of my boss, and of course was forced to resign.

I took a few months break then got another job, in my first year I had 33 days off sick. After two years, (again permanently exhausted beyond belief, going home and collapsing until bed time) I resigned and walked out when completely exhausted.

Went back to my GP, was told I was depressed, I said that I was p***ed off with constantly being tired and ill, not depressed. 

I was already on Seroxat due to me getting migraines, had them for years where half my face would go numb and they would last days, was under a neurologist, they tried everything and the only thing that worked was antidepressants, that made them last about 3 hrs rather than 3 days.

GP upped dosage as I was depressed ,and also gave me some other strong things that spaced me out.

I kept gong back, I kept getting told I had another virus.

Bills went being paid.

My wife said she thought I had yuppy flu (as it was called at the time) and she said I obviously cant work at the moment, so we made the joint decision to move 200 miles away from friends and family to an area of the country where the cost of living was much cheaper, hence we could buy a house on just my wifes salary.   

We moved, new GP, told me my problem was I was lazy????.

I complained to the medical whoever, they said they like to get things sorted between patient and GP, but GP didnt want me anymore.  So they found me a new GP.

New GP referred me to hospital where I was diagnosed with CFS/ME.  I saw a specialist once, all the rest of the time was a yearly review with an occupational therapist (and even that stopped for a few years) 

I wrote letter after letter to the health minister, my NHS trust etc saying I felt the CFS/ME tag is a copout. I'm not saying it doesnt exit, it's just that I know three other people who have it, and all four of our symptoms are completely different except for the tiredness.

I woke up, puffy faced, would go down stairs, sit in the chair then my wife would wake me up when she got home, months would go by when I couldnt leave the house, and at the end of a year, there might have been 2 weeks where I felt totally fit and well, the other 50- weeks I just existed.  I couldnt read 1/2 a page of a book and take it in, my short term memory was almost non existent etc.

Whereas one person I know gets bruises and looks like she's been beaten black and blue.

I said that if I look at my tiredness, there's thousands of illnesses/things that list that as a side effect and I kind of felt they do a few basic tests and if they cant work out whats wrong, throw us all under the same CFS/ME umbrella and forget about us. 

Fell on deaf ears.

Due to my inactivity, while my knees hurt like hell, I didn't bother going to the GP about them.

Hiatus Hernia was getting worse, I was sleeping propped up and waking up unable to breath, felt like fluid in my lungs, would have an hour long coughing fit, would be no white left in my eyes, would be purple instead. And I would loose my voice for an hour or so. 

GP refused to refer me, said it had already been diagnosed so there's no point wasting their budget.

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## simonp

Part 3:

GP left, new one joined, I spoke to him about it and he agreed to refer me.  Long story short, I had to lay on a table with camera in my throat while swallowing a marshmallow, then had to carry a computer with a thing up my nose and into my stomach for 24 hours. 

Cant remember exactly, but if I scored over about 15, I would benefit from an operation and I scored something like 50.

Was referred to a surgeon, he was visibly angry that I had been left to suffer for so many years and couldnt understand why I wasn't operated on years ago.

I had the operation, called a "Nissen fundoplication" that effectively turns my diaphragm into a one way valve. It is now physically impossible for me to vomit, I cant drink any fizzy drinks, and crusty bread and chicken for some reason gets stuck when I swallow, so I have to have Turkey instead (they warned me about this, apparently it's something to do with chickens consistency) 

However, since the operation, I was no longer waking up puffy faced, I felt on top of the world, was no longer totally exhausted, I thought "yes, Im cured, can go get a job".

I had my yearly appointment with my occupational therapist about two months later, I told them the op cured me and they said "it sometimes happens" and signed me off.

Turns out I wasn't cured, but thought I was, as I was so well compared with how I had been (if that makes sense)

I started going out, walking dogs, and my knees disintegrated. 

Was referred to hospital for xrays and to see a specialist.  When I went into the specialist for the first time, he remarked "oh , they did get your age right, I thought they had made a mistake, you have the knees of an 80 year old" (said it very friendly)

End result is in 2016 I had two total knee replacements, one in Feb, other in Nov

Meanwhile before the knee ops, I had started noticing backache when I was washing up, but it went away when seated.

I had the knee ops and thought yes, get fit, get a job. However, my few close friends here who know me very well, all without exception told me that there's no way on this planet I am well enough to consider working, and I am mad to rush back on. 

I was so pleased with the physical side, I was forgetting about the mental side.

After my first knee op, my back started hurting very badly when walking. After my 2nd op it got 100 times worse. I thought it was me walking differently, but its horrendous. Sometimes I have to sit down for a min every 50 - 100 yards as the pain is so crippling. 

Had MRI on entire spine, was told it's abnormal, but not too abnormal for someone my age. Also showed up bad arthritis. GP  said she doesn't think it will ever get better (in fact she said it will probably only get worse). Then last April, I went with my son for a short walk to see how far I could go, one minute was standing, the next, flat on the floor and had broken my elbow as my knee had given way.

Happened to see my knee surgeon about my arm, when I told him my new knee gave way, he said "what you describe is physically impossible, do you suffer from any back problems", he said my GP needs to get my back sorted else it will keep happening and I will ruin my knees.

GP referred me to neurologist who did MRI of my head, but could find nothing wrong,  GP then referred me to a physiotherapist and a dietician (I weigh 19 stone).

Physio in October last year said,  due to my inactivity caused by my CFS/ME, my body is so out of condition, my spine so stiff etc that it's going to take a good year before I can even consider working (this is from a physical point of view).

Meanwhile, I'm not sleeping well at night due to numerous things. Pain in back (and sometimes pains in new knees when lying on my side), pain in my elbow etc constantly wake me up. End result Im waking up shattered and sleeping almost as much as when my CFS/ME was really bad.

My short term memory is a LOT better than it used to be, but still about once a week I completely forget, I'm not talking about going upstairs and wondering what I went up for, best example I have is it being 7pm and me asking my wife if she minds getting my tablets as my back hurts, and her replying "you asked me 5 mins ago, you've only just taken them " and me having zero recollection to this day.

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## simonp

part 4

I also suffer blurred vision due to an attack many years ago, have various other pains all over my body, constantly feel sick, constantly have a headache (although I don't count either as having them anymore, if I tell my wife I have a headache or feel sick, she knows I have a mega headache, or feel like I'm about to vomit)

There's other stuff I havent gone into, but that's the jist

When I had CFS badly, I was really really not with it at all and spent money we didn't have on junk we didn't need. Also applied for credit cards online in both mine and my wifes names, hence am in a lot of debt.

I have debt collectors hassling me all the time, I tried the charities such as stepchange, but they cant stop them writing to me or make them freeze the interest, hence I have to deal with it myself.

On top of all that I managed to score 0 points in my medical assessment, loose my mandatory appeal etc, so had my ESA stopped.  What the medical assessor described bears zero resemblance to me. Both my GP and physio say I cant work but the Department for work and pensions disagree with them and say they dont understand the system (or words to that effect) and I'm awaiting an tribunal appeal (at least I get part of my ESA while waiting for it).

Finally (I think) I reported a credit card company to the financial ombudsman, and found the result both frustrating and futile. They didn't up hold my complaint because even though I had copies of letters I had sent going back 3 years, and a screen capture of an online message I sent while logged into the actual company, even though I paid to send them all recorded, me having copies don't prove I sent them, and the screen capture only shows I was logged in, not that I sent the text. The company denies receiving ANY of them and the ombudsman decides to side with them. Doesn't help my stress levels  (the email telling me this on the 22nd Dec was great timing) 

And just to make my Christmas perfect, , two weeks before Christmas I was told I now had type 2 diabetes and was put on medication.

My current medication is as follows.

2x 100mg Allopurinol
1 twice a day 500 microgram Colchicine
1 three times a day 50 mg Cyclizine
1 twice a day 30mg Duloxetine
one puff twice a day Fostair 100/6 inhaler
30mg Lansoprazole only if needed
1 three times a day 500mg Metformin
1 spray twice a day 50 microgram Mometaone nasal spray
1 40mg Simvastatin
Ultrabase crream (use instead of soap)

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## Paula

Simon, have you ever see a Pain Specialist?

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## simonp

No I haven't. I have tried virtually every known painkiller though

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## Paula

Believe me as someone who knows, Pain specialists can come up with all sorts of ideas most doctors cant

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## Suzi

I've got some of the same conditions as you with others thrown in. I was diagnosed with arthritis at 12, since then the shopping list of medical conditions has just increased - including degenerative discs in the top and base of my spine, CFS, Fibro and lots of others lol. 
Have you ever tried a tens machine on your back? I love mine. 
Can I ask why you are only taking lansoprazole when you need it? I was told to take it every day due to the cocktail of meds I take? I would have thought with your hernia issues you'd have been told the same... 
What about mindfulness for pain?

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## S deleted

I’m possibly talking out of my arse here but have you considered doing exercises to strengthen your core? I have a tilted pelvis and after my first child was born I started to experience similar lower back pain when washing up, ironing etc. I won’t bore you with details of my problems but I was told that strengthened the deep core muscles would help reduce the pain.  Worth a go surely.

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## simonp

Thanks all. Can non red users see my part two?  I'm only seeing parts 1, 3 and 4 of my long post.

After my hernia op, I was told to take the lansoprazole for a month then gradually stop, but if I ever get any heartburn etc, to have some handy.

I rarely have to take them now and I don't suffer from any acid reflux

Never tried a tens machine.   Never heard of mindfulness, will google.

The physio has given me exercises for my back, But said I'm bending from something like 3 vertebra up from where I should be bending from as my back is so stiff. 

Problem with my pain is I have a very high pain threshold, on a good day when I consider it mild pain, the average person in the street would be panicking and screaming as they are in so much pain.  I get so much pain from so many different areas. its exhausting.

My back pain is sometimes literally crippling. Likewise the pain that suddenly comes in my knees (can come just for a few seconds)  well I suppose the best way I'd describe it is like an electric shock, although its nothing like that, more that the effect of an electric shock where you go from nothing to muscles spasms,, that's what the pain does to my legs, one second nothing, the next my legs physically jolting due to the pain.

The neck pain I often wake up with (now have an orthopedic pillow, but still wake up with them, although not as often), it's like the whole back of my head hurts, a bit like a very very very bad hangover.  Added to the fact I always feel sick and this makes my nausea worse, and I permanently have a headache of some sort anyway, it really makes me unable to function.  This on top of everything else just makes me want to scream etc

Anyway I wont bore you listing all my other pains, I'm sure many of you suffer from similar or worse. 

I've spoken to both my GP and my physio about them and both say looking at my history, scans, xrays etc, they know they are actual pains rather than anything psychological.

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## Suzi

I've sorted that with your part 2. It came up as a moderated post due to the amount you were posting in a short space of time  :O:  

Ask for a referral to pain clinic if you don't feel that your current pain is being controlled..

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## simonp

Many thanks. I think I will do that

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## Suzi

Let us know how you get on...

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## simonp

I typed a letter for my GP, which was a condensed version of my posts in this thread.

I started by saying




> "Dear Dr xxxx, In January, I finally managed to have enough courage to post onto a depression forum about how my depression really effects me, reading it back through was kind of a big relief as I had at last confronted it.
> 
> Some of the advice was:
> 
> It may be helpful to be referred to a pain specialist 
> 
> With regards to my depression, there were various suggestions for me having various psychiatric  things, but giving my GP a printout of what I wrote was the one I was told I needed to do


I dropped it in to reception at about 1pm, and asked if it could be added to my notes.

By 3pm, the surgery had phoned me up and said my doctor wants to see me next week and I have an appointment on Thursday 1st March

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Suzi (22-02-18)

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## Paula

Thats fantastic! Well done.  :):

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## Suzi

That's awesome! Well done lovely! So glad we could help! What a brilliant Drs!

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## simonp

Update (sorry for how long it's been)

Sorry if this sounds like a bit of a (possibly ungrateful) moan

I sent the benefit Tribunal a copy of the letter I sent my GP about my depression, the letter was a re-written version of the posts I wrote in this thread.

Wont bore you with the details, basically the Tribunal said my GP lacks knowledge of me having only been my GP for just over a year (with full access to all my records unlike the Tribunal) , I'm lying, and I'm occasionally rude to people.  Was a complete waste of time me going, as I hadn't lost my temper with my GP for example, they said there was nothing wrong with me, I tried explaining that before I see my GP I'm concentrating on remaining calm as I am now etc, but it fell on deaf ears.

As I attended my own sons uni graduation, my best friends funeral and my son and daughter take us out for dinner on our birthdays,  I'm, also social according to them, 

I tried explaining that I avoid people at all costs, again fell on deaf ears.

I told them my GP was trying to get me to talk to wellbeing and is altering my depression and pain meds, that translated into "claims he's in pain yet no pain referral........"

Anyway, end result is no benefits and unable to work, so money is really really really tight, which doesn't help my stress  (or my wife's).  But at least UI can forget about dealing with them now.

After sending the letter about my depression to my GP, when I went to see her, she was concerned about me, but stressed that I really really do need to pluck up the courage to contact Wellbeing as they work in partnership. She also increased my Duloxetine  to one in the morning and two at night, and also refereed me to a sleep clinic.

So I finally plucked up the courage to contact wellbeing, I sent them a copy of the same letter and stressed "PLEASE CONTACT ME BY EMAIL ONLY"  that was on 7th March.

A few night later, my wife answered the phone then came over to me and said "It's Wellbeing"

I reluctantly took the phone, spoke to a nice polite person who said they do phone appointments for the first consultation and arranged a date/time.

This didn't help me much as I hate being put on the spot /talking on the phone.

Anyway, the appointment date arrived, I spent about 2 hours preparing myself mentally for it, the guy phones me up and is a really pleasant guy to talk to.

In his credit, the first thing he said is "I see you don't like talking on the phone, if you want I can arrange a face to face appointment instead".  I said "I've built myself up for the call now,  and as I'm talking to him, we may as well go ahead.

The call lasted for about 40 mins, and he suggested him referring me to a positive pain management group, and possibly referring me for CBT at a later date, then asked what I thought abort that choice.  I said that's fine (not sure what else I could say, but am happy for a pain clinic anyway).

A few days later I received a letter from him stating what we had decided.

In the letter he had scored me as follows.

PHQ9 (depression scale)  18

GAD7 (anxiety scale)  13

And I also had a questionnaire to fill out asking me

1) Did staff listen to you and treat your concerns seriously?
2) Do you feel that the service has helped you to better understand your and address your difficulties?
3) Did you feel involved in making choices about your treatment and care?
4) On reflection, did you get the help that mattered to you
5) Did you have confidence in your therapist and her / his skills techniques.

Well I'm not too sure how I'm supposed to fill that one out, I've been given one option, and dont know yet how helpful it will be.


And all went quiet for a few weeks.

Then the phone rang  (my answering phone is permanently on, saying all calls are screened and to leave a message if they want me to get back etc) and it came up "Private Caller" in the display.  Usually when that happens it's my GP surgery, but I ignored it anyway. Then straight away it phoned again, again "Private Caller", so just in case I picked it up and it turned out to be the therapist again  (why he couldn't leave a message I don't know)


He said they could no longer refer patients for main management clinics, and I would need to contact my GP.  

He then made two other suggestions Wellbeing could do for me.

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## simonp

continued:

First, the most awful suggestion I have ever heard,  them to arrange me to go out for a coffee with someone else who has been through depression.  Probably wont put this into the best words, but:

when I told my wife, she said "he obviously don't know you at all"
I made it very very clear in my accompanying letter I don't like talking to strangers.

The thought of having to meet someone I don't know that isn't a qualified therapist, over a coffee in a public place and talk about my illness, well some of you might well find this sort of thing helpful, it makes me want to run a mile. 

When I said "not a chance", he seemed a little taken aback I thought it such an awful idea.

2) Telephone support for behavioural Activation that if I understood him correctly is a sort of automated thing where I press a number depending on my answer etc.

I said I would give it a go (was put on the spot, wasn't expecting him on the phone etc)

And sure I'm being unfair as I haven't tried it yet, but I just don't feel like I'm receiving proper therapy/help to get top the root of my problem, just by randomly phoning me up makes me have little confidence in them.  

So, I received another letter (saying "Following our first appointment", just like the first letter did) saying I had been added to the waiting list for step 2 1:1 Telephone Support for Behavioural Activation, along with another questionnaire.

I'm not going to fill out the questionnaire saying I don't feel it's helpful when I know it will be the same person contacting me again in the future.

I had to wait two weeks for an appointment at my GP, had it this morning. They were more than happy to refer me to a pain clinic.

I've had a thing connected to my nose and finger while sleeping for a night and have an appointment with the sleep clinic in June. 

Not sure what else to say at the moment. I feel more pi$$ed off than depressed if I'm honest, I'm not sure I really have confidence in Wellbeing, if after reading the letter I sent them, they really thought I would be happy meeting a stranger for coffee, then I kind of feel like I'm wasting my time, but at least the process has been started.

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## Suzi

I know that it is frustrating, but I'm sure they are doing all they can. Services are really stretched. 
Did you tell your GP about it today and ask if there is anything different they can refer you too? Have you checked things like mind in your area? 
Are you not appealing the tribunal?

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## simonp

Thanks Suzi

I tried to appeal the Tribunal, but I can only appeal if there is an error in law, not because I disagree with the outcome, and they refused my request to appeal.

I didn't get to see my GP for the referral, it was a advanced nurse practitioner, very nice, happy to refer me.

I think I will leave things as they are for now, do the phone thing when I get an appointment and take it from there. If I then feel I'm not getting anywhere, I can look into other things.

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## Suzi

Sorry about not being able to appeal.
Glad you have a plan in place..

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